Are Men Oppressed?

6 Oct

The National Post ran an interesting article on the Men’s Rights Awareness (MRA) movement that is growing at Canadian universities.

I’d like to hear your civil opinions on two simple questions:

1. Are men oppressed by feminism? and

2. What do you think about MRA groups on campus being labelled as being inherently “hateful”?

No trolling, be respectful, and thanks in advance for your thoughts.

Advertisements

50 Responses to “Are Men Oppressed?”

  1. evolution October 6, 2013 at 5:16 am #

    I agree with the comments made my steph Guthrie and mr. Laxer, although I think it is highly contextual and varies per culture. I do not see a large feminist ‘movement’ here in holland, but I also don’t see men being oppressed. I also know that in many places of the world, women are blatantly suppressed. I think this is so much more complicated than feminism or men’s rights. It’s about re-establishing a healthy society in which both ‘genders’ and their associated characteristics are honored. When women took to the workplace, as I see it, all changed. Some positive and some not so much, for example the traditional family structure has broken down, which is concerning, but is that the problem of feminism or the lack of societal structure to compensate this new paradigm of work/life balance? I think it’s an industrial revolution problem, and the breakdown of community, in this case.

    So yes, men are likely sometimes oppressed by feminism. And women are oppressed and African Americans and native Americas and everyone else is oppressed in some way. We oppress each other, and we scapegoat each other and we label each other as ‘us’ and ‘them’. I think it’s time to grow up as a PEOPLE and realize that we are all different and all the same and we have to work together to build a healthy society, and stop wasting our energy on blaming each other. We are clearly not there yet.

    Any group that is for the support of the healthy, respectful development of any one demographic (white men, black women, whatever) should not receive the label of being hateful, that is, unless they are!!

    It’s a ramble, but it comes from the heart. Thank you for the thought -provoking article.

    • navigator1965 October 6, 2013 at 9:12 am #

      Evolution,

      You seem to have a rather insightful heart, then. Thanks for some excellent thoughts.

      Interestingly, around 2009 I spoke to an associate professor of sociology who was one of only a handful of academics with the courage to study feminism and it’s harmful effects upon men. He said that malignant feminism (my term) seemed to be limited to the major English speaking nations.

      I share your concern over the breakdown of the family structure. I suggest that feminism is part of what is causing this, but that there is a larger and longer term process of social decay at play. It appears to me that the English speaking world is undergoing the same process of decline and fall as befell the Roman Empire.

      I certainly concur with your view that there are places where women are oppressed, and I like your thoughts on working towards a harmonious world. We should all be doing this.

      • evolution October 6, 2013 at 4:13 pm #

        Thanks for your response 1965, and thanks again for challenging the status quo, as this is only way we get anywhere. I am curious about your definition of malignant feminism, and I would look forward to a post on that one in the future, should you be interested in extending upon that a bit further.

        • navigator1965 October 6, 2013 at 7:42 pm #

          Evo,

          The concept of malignant feminism is likely to be in Part 5 of my boys and education series of posts. This will be a primary pillar of my 2nd book as well.

          Suffice it to say that malignant feminists suffer, I will argue, from a gender-specific form of narcissism. They have the essential narcissistic traits – grandiosity, lack of empathy / heartless / even cruel, cunning / manipulative / interpersonally exploitative, pathological liars in certain regards, superficially charming, etc. However, it is my experience that how narcissism manifests in women in generally not well understood, and in feminists I have only learned of two experts who have figured this out.

          As a general rule, believe nothing feminists say without thoroughly considering and investigating the topic yourself. And “to thine own self be true.” Discover both the person and the women who you really are, be at peace with her, and love her in a decent and positive way.

  2. allthedots October 6, 2013 at 7:08 am #

    I don’t think there is anything wrong in general with men setting up a group/movement to tackle gender issues the same way women do. If they feel that cultural attitudes, pop culture, and certain laws are hurting their gender then they have the right. However, I have looked at MRA forums on the net and they are definitely a hate group. Most of their blog and forum posts bash women and women who identify as feminists. They seem to spend more time making bigoted comments (not just towards women, but gays and racial minorities) than they do having any progressive discussion.

  3. Shawn West October 8, 2013 at 5:04 am #

    1. Are men oppressed by feminism?

    – Not being allowed to even speak about or study men’s issues sounds fairly oppressive to me.

    2. What do you think about MRA groups on campus being labelled as being inherently “hateful”?

    – Lobby groups are always branded as such by the interest being lobbied against, its called politics.

    Just look at linked to article. The meetting organizers having to pay for extra security out of a fear of violence by campus feminists pretty much shows which is the “hate” group.

    • navigator1965 October 8, 2013 at 8:43 pm #

      Shawn,

      Agree with you on both counts. I suggest that there is even a deeper dimension to your insight as to which group is the true hate group.

      Ever heard of narcissistic projection? It’s basically the proverbial pot calling the kettle black. In other words, the more rabid of feminists suffer from narcissism. Gender narcissism.

      • Shawn West October 8, 2013 at 9:17 pm #

        Narcissistic Projection? No I have not. Projecting your love of self onto another? Sounds like the pot calling the kettle a pot.

        After looking it up I see what point your making though and it does fit. It might be easier however to just call it a “guilty conscience.”

        • navigator1965 October 8, 2013 at 9:26 pm #

          You might find this interesting. My ex-wife of 19 years has expert-confirmed narcissistic personality traits. I lived with these traits for long enough that I know them when I see them. I can assure you that I saw the sesame traits in the feminist judges who put the boots to me in my divorce, and in other radical / gender / gynocentric / ideological feminists (hard core types).

          Narcissists are thought to be excruciatingly sensitive to shame. The mere existence of a men’s rights group would expose narcissistic feminists to their own subconscious shame. As a defence mechanism, they project this (and their own self-hatred, again unconscious) onto the offending group.

          Being part of a hate group is rather shameful, wouldn’t you say?

  4. Conrad (The Wine Wankers) October 8, 2013 at 9:25 pm #

    We sure are! Time we started a serious movement for equality me thinks.

    • navigator1965 October 9, 2013 at 12:44 am #

      It’s starting to happen. I certainly mean to make my contribution to it. }:-)>

  5. Shawn West October 8, 2013 at 10:30 pm #

    I think it shows the equality women in Canada actually enjoy if this rally is how far out of their way they need to go to feel discriminated against.

    I blog about Father’s Rights, which I assume would be part of “men’s studies,” and considering the absolute mess Canadian family law is in I think it is needed. Frankly, I find it fascinating that the courts up there are able to do the things they do all things considered. Now our courts get away with a ton of crap here in the U.S. but then again we haven’t ratified the “Convention on the Rights of the Child” so have a catch-all excuse.

    So “men’s studies” is what; politics, family law, recognizing the rights of children, family values and being better fathers? Yeah, if that isn’t the description of a steel eyed, cold blooded, Canadian hate group I don’t know what is.

    Good thing those peace loving feminists are protecting campuses across Canada against such a vile thing.

    • navigator1965 October 9, 2013 at 12:39 am #

      Canada pays lip service to the Convention on the Rights of the Child in my experience when it comes to divorce. And yes, feminists in Canada are getting desperate to find ways to be victims. I argue this is an inherent function of gender narcissism. Narcissistic feminists have a pathological need for women being victims of men and society to be “true.” They will actually engineer elements of society so that this is the case as much as possible, either imagined or for real.

      I tried to follow your blog, but WordPress wouldn’t let me for some reason.

      • Shawn West October 9, 2013 at 1:10 am #

        No worries, it won’t let me follow my page either.

  6. bethbyrnes October 11, 2013 at 9:04 am #

    I don’t have a lot of wisdom to share on this issue, but, aside from the fact that men have physical abilities that can lead to spousal/significant other and child abuse (I think this goes without saying and most of this type of abuse is committed by men), women can be psychologically and emotionally abusive. It would be good if women could feel like people first and women, second. I am not a proponent of identifying strongly with secondary gender characteristics and so not a feminist per se. Having said all that, women do have to worry about violence, as most of us are not prone to it ourselves. A complex topic. Boys and men have rights and sensibilities that have to be respected at every level. We should all just be good and fair to each other!

    • navigator1965 October 11, 2013 at 9:36 am #

      Beth,

      I like your general philosophy. Yes, we should all be good and fair to one another.

      You might be surprised on the actual stats on domestic violence by gender. I can send you a rigorous, peer-reviewed, published academic paper by two professors which reveals that:

      – the stereotypical male “wife beater” situation is actually the least common form of domestically violent relationship;

      – lesbian couples have higher rates of domestic violence than do heterosexual couples;

      – woman are at least as domestically violent as men in terms of both frequency and severity of outcome;

      – mothers are a greater threat to children than are fathers (not sure if this has been adjusted to reflect mothers having more time with the kids or not).

      The paper is exceptionally good at exposing the feminist gender politics behind domestic violence “research.”

  7. WordsFallFromMyEyes October 12, 2013 at 9:59 pm #

    Interesting I should come by this today as yesterday, literally, my son told me he read of a feminist who said if she ever had a baby and it was a boy, no way would she feed it her breast milk as there’s enough strong men out there & she didn’t want to create another.

    I said to my son that wasn’t feminism. Feminism is a fight for women’s rights – to walk safely the streets, to be paid as men are paid, to not be overlooked simply because we are female. I said no, that was just plain old hate! That woman has obviously been overpowered & thinks she can regain her power by disempowering a defenceless baby – but that’s not how you get your power back.

    I dont’ see men as oppressed, but I do feel deeply for men with issues, for they need their issues addressed – they need love too, care, & a path for wellness.

    • navigator1965 October 12, 2013 at 10:45 pm #

      Hello Words,

      So nice of you to drop by – thank you.

      I will respectfully disagree with you as to what feminism is. What you told your son is what feminism should be. A wonderful mother of two boys, Christina Hoff Sommers Ph.D., wrote a great book entitled Who Stole Feminism? How Women Have Betrayed Women. Basically, those women whom you would know as radical feminists (also known as gender, gynocentric, and ideological feminists) have long since taken over the women’s movement.

      Although it proclaims otherwise, contemporary feminism has nothing to do with genuine equality or legitimate women’s rights. I intend to explain this in a second book – my first should be out around Christmas. I’ll spare you my background, but I have a wonderful Professor of English who has expressed her endorsement of my analysis. She was a former card-carrying feminist who say through the lies, and then rejects the movement. She now speaks out and writes against feminism.

      I can recommend some good books if you’d like. Depending upon your son’s age, you might want learn the reality of the adult world he’s either in or will be entering into.

      Cheers.

      • WordsFallFromMyEyes October 12, 2013 at 10:54 pm #

        Thanks for your huge reply. I appreciate the time.

        I’ve not known feminism to be other than what I thought it was/is, so there must be some news or events I’ve not read about. I really do hope it’s not going backward though, or just evolving into a hate movement. We have enough of those.

  8. andreveloz October 16, 2013 at 7:01 pm #

    I enjoy your blog because it opens a different point of view. Many of my blogs will tend to be about women’s oppression, thinking about the oppression of the opposite sex and asking myself some questions about feminism is very refreshing. Listening to both sides of the bell is always enriching.

    • navigator1965 October 16, 2013 at 8:17 pm #

      Andre,

      Thanks for your kind words. I by no means suggest that there aren’t places in the world where women are abused, oppressed, and not respected. This includes the English-speaking world, where women (and men and children and justice) are oppressed by feminism. I prefer a rational and civil analysis and discussion of these sorts of ideas as a general rule (with, perhaps, a bit of dry humour and satire thrown in), and very much welcome you to this.

  9. Tarnished October 26, 2013 at 8:25 pm #

    1. Are men oppressed by feminism?

    I think that men are certainly oppressed by something in Western society, and part of it does indeed stem from feminism. Much like any other ideology, feminism can look good on paper…but add real life people, and it gets completely f’d up. This, along with my Gender Dysphoria, is why I identify as an egalitarian rather than a feminist. After all, feminism is by very definition a “woman’s movement” and has no standards in place to aid the great many males who require assistance and care.

    2. What do you think about MRA groups on campuses being labeled as inherently “hateful”?

    I think it’s pure balderdash, a knee jerk response by people in positions of authority who don’t want to upset the status quo. While there are many MRA groups that actually *are* hateful/misogynistic/bigoted…that’s certainly not all of them. One does not have to scream at female rape victims in order to help male ones. One does not have to say that women are worthless in order to prove male worth. One does not have to speak out against women who are victims of domestic violence in order to acknowledge that men are abused in similar numbers. The issues I see with MRA groups AND Feminist groups is that they (for the most part) act as though any situation that goes against their own is inherently bad/malicious…like the presence of male victims of sexual harrasment somehow lessens the experiences of female ones, or that if we talk about how women need bodily autonomy in the case of pregnancy that this argument automatically means that men shouldn’t have better parental options.

    Perhaps a better question would be why we as a society are unable to just create unbiased laws that treat everyone fairly without needing to divide victims/survivors into harmful, segregated categories.

    • navigator1965 October 26, 2013 at 10:01 pm #

      TS,

      First, thank you for your thoughtful and civil comments here. Even if it turns out that we do not agree 100% on any given issue, any intelligent and benevolent position is welcome here. I do have a bit of a sense of humour too, and so do not take myself too seriously.

      I’ve had a quick look at your blog, and it’s a mutual follow. I am actually fortunate to have you here, as I have to learn more about issues such as gender dysforia for a sequel to my soon-to-be published book.

      Is there a story behind your username? Tarnished wisdom?

      I plan to get into this in my 2nd book, but I suspect that in the case of at least some of the antagonistic MRA groups, this is the result of the dynamic established by ideological feminists. That is, there is a dynamic in which these feminists manipulate to cause the adverse male behaviour they want to be “true.” A self-fulfilling prophesy, if you will.

      Be well.

  10. johncoyote October 27, 2013 at 8:49 am #

    Men are not oppressed. Just fear when the woman gain confident and control their world.

    • navigator1965 October 27, 2013 at 9:41 am #

      John,

      Thanks for dropping by and commenting. Speaking from experience, ideological feminists are not merely controlling their own worlds. They have acted to rigidly control significant aspects of society, and a controlling nature is a hallmark clinical identifier of narcissism.

      I will be discussing this in my forthcoming book(s).

      In the interim, if you’re interested in this topic, here are some well-written books by credible academics which accurately expose the fraudulent nature of ideological feminism:

      “Divorced Dads – Shattering the Myths” by Professor Emeritus Sandford Braver, Ph.D.

      “Who Stole Feminism? – How Women Have Betrayed Women” by Christina Hoff Sommers, Ph.D.

      “Legalizing Misandry” by McGill University academics Dr. Paul Nathanson and Professor Katherine Young. (Bit of a Canadian emphasis here.)

      Cheers.

      • johncoyote October 27, 2013 at 9:47 am #

        I brought up three daughters and I have five younger sisters. I taught then how to defend themselves and told them. Never let a man support you. Woman must stand their ground. Last people to receive real freedom were woman. Education is the key. I respect woman with confident and know what they need. Men have been getting away with too much till lately. My father left six woman with eleven kids and didn’t pay a dime. World had to change. Woman must be strong. Men must accept. Woman are getting wiser and stronger. I’m glad.

        • navigator1965 October 27, 2013 at 10:56 am #

          John,

          I am very sympathetic to the circumstances which led you to your current philosophy. Men who behave as your father did are correctly described as fundamentally irresponsible. However, I must respectfully disagree that men are the sole source of what is wrong in our society. Tarnishedsophia did an excellent job of highlighting many relevant issues.

          I support genuine education for all, as it enriches life. However, being exposed to feminist ideology in the guise of “theory” isn’t education. It is programming.

          Where I live – Ontario, Canada -, children are not truly people with rights in divorce. They are maternal property, little magic support piggy banks that magically spew out money for Mummy every month, irrespective of bad a mother she may be, and irrespective of good their father may be. Mothers are known to be greater risks to children than fathers. Munchausen by proxy, for example, is the most lethal form of child abuse, and the vast majority of cases are perpetrated by female caregivers, particularly mothers. Parental alienation is another form of child abuse that is more often perpetrated by mothers, and some exerts in the field consider it to be even more harmful to children than sexual abuse.

          You may wish to Google the Canadian cases of Elaine Campione and, more recently, Nicole Doucet. In the former, a Canadian judge was outraged that a jury found her guilty of murdering her two young daughters. In the latter, the Supreme Court of Canada let off a woman who had twice tried to hire a hit man to kill her ex-husband. He was worth $1,000,000 in insurance money to her dead. Apparently this is okay so long as the woman pretends that she was “afraid” of her ex.

          What else? Telling him it’s his child when it isn’t?

          I don’t think either gender / sex has anything to brag about in terms of being inherently virtuous and the other being inherently diabolical. And I refuse to subscribe to feminist revisionist history in terms of women’s “historical disadvantage.”

          However, your civil dissenting views are always welcome here.

    • Tarnished October 27, 2013 at 10:30 am #

      While it is a wonderful thing that women are able to be confident, in control of their own finances, and have so many life options available to them, one must take a hard look at how men are currently treated in Western society.

      There are less than 5 male domestic violence shelters in the US.

      Male rape victims are often told they are lucky (if it was female on male) or disallowed from speaking about their experiences (if it was male on male). http://tarnishedsophia.wordpress.com/2013/06/19/unloving-kiss-my-guest-blog/

      Male homosexuals are still looked down on far more than female homosexuals.

      When child custody cases/divorce cases go to court rather than being settled outside of it, men are almost always given the short end of the stick.

      About 8%-10% of reported rapes are found to be completely fabricated by the accuser. Not only does this mean that innocent men are being put on sexual predator lists/sent to prison on the whim of disingenuous individuals, but it makes it harder for true rape victims to be believed.

      It is still fine for a woman to choose to be a housewife or have a career, but if a man wishes to be a househusband he is told to “man up” and provide (money) for his family. As though caring for ones offspring is not providing for them?

      Society as a whole laughs at jokes where men are harmed genitally, or find it humorous when men are castrated/harmed on their penises. (Google Sharon Osbourne, penis for something truly revolting that made it onto daytime TV). If someone made a joke about female genital mutilation, they’d be fired so fast their head would spin.
      http://tarnishedsophia.wordpress.com/2013/07/01/this-is-justice/

      Men are looked on as needing to be responsible all the time, a double standard of epic proportions. If a man and woman get drunk and have sex, she could potentially call him a rapist…even though BOTH of them were in a theoretical state of non-consent.

      If a woman is a virgin, she can be shamed for “not being sexually liberated” OR praised for “being a pillar of feminine virtue”. If a man is a virgin, he is universally shamed unless he is in a religious order.
      http://tarnishedsophia.wordpress.com/2013/10/20/virgin-shaming-not-cool-bro/

      Studies have shown that women are far more likely to be protected in public than men, even if the perpetrator of the violence is solely the woman. There have even been instances of an abusive wife/girlfriend being AIDED by strangers in beating up her husband/boyfriend. Presumably the strangers believed he “had it coming”. http://tarnishedsophia.wordpress.com/2013/06/03/deserving-of-protection/

      All these things and more make it a dangerous time to be a man in Western society. Yes, women worldwide *do* still live with sexist beliefs and attitudes…but do not mistake this for a lack of sexism against men. Misandry as well as misogyny needs to be dealt with if we are ever to have true equality.

      • navigator1965 October 27, 2013 at 10:41 am #

        T_Sophia,

        You obviously are well-read in this broader topic area, and I am in your debt for such an informative post. I am sympathetic to JC in that he’s obviously seen the bad side of the male half and suffered for it. However, as you so rationally demonstrate, the balance of evidence does support the position that it is men who are the disproportionately disadvantaged gender / sex in contemporary society, and not the women.

        • Tarnished October 27, 2013 at 1:09 pm #

          I am sympathetic to him as well, especially as I endured physical/mental abuse from my father and sexual/emotional abuse from my stepfather. Men as individuals are far from angelic, but as a whole are no different morally than women. I firmly believe that just because some woman was a bitch does not make ALL women bitches…and just because some man was an abuser does not make ALL men abusers.

          Men and women alike have to deal with sexism and double standards in modern society. I tend to see more blatant misandry against men though, whereas women usually have to deal with benevolent sexism and only rarely true misogyny.

        • navigator1965 October 27, 2013 at 5:33 pm #

          Tarnished, I can find no flaw in your thoughts, and I thank you for sharing them. The sympathy – but not pity – that I have for JC would obviously extend to you as well.

          I do think that as a broader society both men and women collectively have a fair bit of soul searching to do.

  11. genderneutrallanguage October 30, 2013 at 10:37 pm #

    Two very good questions.

    1) Are men oppressed? Nope, at least not yet. The kicker is neither are women. Men and women have different expectations of them, but that does not make either oppressed. The Marxist Version of conflict theory simply does not work in the gender relations conversation.
    http://wp.me/p2Ztpk-3s

    2)Are men’s Group’s Hate Groups? Yes and no. There are irrefutably bigots and others that are truly hateful within men’s groups, but the same is true for feminism. Men’s groups are on par with feminism in this regard. If the campus considers feminism a hate movement and bans it from campus, they should also ban Men’s Groups. If the Campus does not consider feminism a hate movement, then neither are the Men’s Rights Advocates.

    • navigator1965 October 30, 2013 at 11:01 pm #

      gnl,

      Thanks for commenting. Based upon personal experience, I would respectfully disagree with you on the first point, but am inclined to agree with you in the second. However, if for argument’s sake we accept the first as being true, would that not result in justified outrage in men’s rights groups?

      In future work, I intend to argue that this is indeed a part of the feminist dynamic, in that they work to inculcate anger into men and male collectives.

      • genderneutrallanguage October 31, 2013 at 9:57 am #

        My first point very much results in justified outrage. Women are not oppressed. Feminism attempting to gain benefits for women is not ending oppression, but fabricating privilege. This is very much a solid justification for outrage.

      • genderneutrallanguage November 1, 2013 at 11:51 am #

        I realized I left off a very important point. The problem is not oppression of males or females. The problem is talking about the problems in terms of oppression. Using the word Oppression in talking about gender relations you are falling into the very same trap that feminists are in. You are talking about gender in a Marxist Conflict Theory framework. This does not work when talking about gender. The Marxist Conflict Theory Framework does not work when talking about gender relations, when you use the word “oppression” you are supporting the use of this dysfunctional framework.

        • navigator1965 November 1, 2013 at 4:57 pm #

          I’m going to disagree with you, but with the caveat that I am not conversant with Marxist Conflict Theory. My perspective is that ideological feminisms stems from gender narcissism, and that such women are pathologically driven to make women being victims of men and society appear ‘true’ to the greatest extend possible.

          The result of this is that men are effectively oppressed, but that society refuses to acknowledge this, and those individuals who do are vilified or even persecuted.

          Ideological feminism, which drives the women’s movement, is a subset of what the late Christopher Lasch wrote about in his modern classic of social criticism “The Culture of Narcissism.”

          I do appreciate you comment, though. It’s that I believe the gender narcissism paradigm is the only truly valid intellectual frame of reference from which to comprehend ideological feminism. I’m confident enough that this is part of the primary thesis of my two books, first of which should be out in January.

        • genderneutrallanguage November 1, 2013 at 6:50 pm #

          LOL our two theories are not far off.
          Under a Marxist Conflict Theory Framework there are two groups only two groups and for ever two groups. Oppressors and the oppressed. If you are not in one group you are in the other. The pathological need to fabricate oppression of women is to insure that women continue to be perceived as the oppressed. This requires demonization of the oppressors, men.

        • navigator1965 November 1, 2013 at 10:46 pm #

          Interesting. Based upon some of the material in the book “Legalizing Misandry,” I am going to propose that both National Socialism and Communism were in fact narcissistic phenomena. Thanks for the info.

  12. yakinamac November 2, 2013 at 10:25 am #

    Just a quickie (as the actress said to the bishop) and I don’t know anything about the MRA so won’t comment on question 2. Here’s my answer to question 1: no

  13. bethbyrnes November 2, 2013 at 10:35 am #

    While I am not a fan of the most extreme forms of the feminist movement, we have to understand the plight of women for thousands of years in this and all parts of the earth, as being subject to physical domination by men. That constant threat that we all live under has a profound, however subtle, psychological effect that no man can ever fully understand. Women have to battle the undue emphasis on secondary gender characteristics in every arena of their lives. Just as the militant movements like the Black Panthers arose from a feeling of subjugation and disenfranchisement, an extreme reaction that burst through the ceiling of white domination and exclusion, the suffrage and feminist movements had to be dramatic, to be effective. Women in the US still earn 75 cents on the dollar doing the exact same work, with the exact same qualifications as men.

    I was raised to think of myself as a person first and a female second, and I conduct myself as an equal to anyone on this planet. But had that not been the case, I would have appreciated the support that a woman’s movement can give to females who have been influenced to feel ‘less than’ or ‘second/inferior to’.

    We can’t be anecdotal, but aggregative in understanding social phenomena.

    • navigator1965 November 2, 2013 at 4:54 pm #

      Hi Beth,

      I will begin my response with a quote:

      “The dogma of woman’s complete historical subjection to men must be rated as one of the most fantastic myths ever created by the human mind.” – Mary Ritter Beard

      I dispute the factual accuracy of the feminist patriarchy meme with women having been the perpetual victims of men and society; this is no given in my books. Life has typically been difficult for both genders, but perhaps in different ways. Rhetorically, how many women died impaled on bayonets in WWI? Or how many women had their lungs rotted out working in coal mines to support families, or died in mine disasters for the very same reason? 9/11 firefighters?

      As for the income argument, I would refer to the books of Warren Farrell, Ph.D., as to why this tends to be so. E.g., working at remote oil fields / oil rigs, volunteering for duty in Afghanistan or Iraq for bonus pay, women having spent less time in a position due to having left the work force for family.

      The book “Legalizing Misandry” (which I think you’d enjoy) suggests that ideological feminism is more deeply entrenched in Canada than in the US. Perhaps we are speaking from appreciably different frames of reference, in that our Canadian constitutional tradition and body of case law was perverted by feminist judges from its inception. However, speaking from the perspective of a divorced father in Canada, I can assure you that our entire socio-justice apparatus here is fundamentally biased.

      Interestingly, I was at national columnist and writer Barbara Kay‘s talk here in Ottawa last night. Barb is a national treasure in terms of reason and civility in her writing. Barb mentioned that she did not experience the general apprehension of men to which you allude, and she attributed this to a very strong relationship with her father (though as she mentioned, it’s not that you shouldn’t be cautious at times). Another lady in the audience agreed with Barb.

      At least in Canada, a rational examination of the situation supports the thesis that it is men who are disadvantaged. Perhaps when my book comes out in January, it will better convey what life can be like for men here. In divorce, I do not believe oppression and persecution to be hyperbolic. Men have been driven to suicide due to this; children have and are being abused because of this.

      I look forward to more of your thoughtful and learned comments, and the opportunity to further engage in civil discourse on these sorts of topics. Thanks for commenting – all intelligent and rational voices are welcome here.

      Cheers.

      • bethbyrnes November 2, 2013 at 5:24 pm #

        This is such a enormous issue, I can hardly do it justice here.

        First of all, Canada and the US are different in many ways and this may be one of them.

        Secondly, all you have to do is go to Africa, Asia, the Middle East and much of Latin America and you will see that this is no myth. You need to study, as I have, the cultures of the Arab nations, to get a clear picture of what women had endured for millennia all over the the planet and still do in a very significant part of the world.

        Women do fight all kinds of physical battles, but rape and beatings come largely at the hands of men. Women rarely cause this kind of bodily injury and try to dominate and terrorize women in that particular way. They may be emotionally, verbally and legally abusive, but apart from wielding a gun, women are no match for men in terms of physical aggression. What women do have is flexibility and endurance and the will to pitch in. I do hard physical labor all the time, but I would never think of trying to overcome or threaten a man physically.

        As for wars? Men start them. I am against ALL war. So the fact that men have to fight the wars they create is justice, imho.

        More on this, I am sure.

  14. bethbyrnes November 2, 2013 at 5:25 pm #

    I meant “or try to dominate other men and women in that particular way” – somehow it was abbreviated in error.

    • navigator1965 November 2, 2013 at 11:38 pm #

      Hi Beth,

      My response will have to wait until tomorrow. The Amarone.

      I suspect that the world is not hanging on our dialectic. Or in other words, I should re-read Sir Francis Bacon’s essay “On Seeming Wise.”

      Cheers”

  15. Shannon November 8, 2013 at 9:54 pm #

    I can say with absolute certainty that in many ways men are opressed by feminism. In a previous comment by navigator1965 he makes mention to the Nicole Doucet story. That story received a great deal of public attention, but in the end it was not corrected and Michael Ryan’s tarnished reputation was not restored. Which makes it just another example to add to the long list of injustices against men by the Courts. I am Michael’s spouse and I have watched him for years being opressed and bullied by the very system that is in place to protect us. I have watched him being bashed and brought down repeatedly for five years, and all without the Courts hearing his testimony or even so much as taking a single statement from him. If this is not oppression, I don’t know what is. I can only pray for the future of all men in this country. I pray for Michael’s and my son, he has to grow up in this world. To any man out there that is living this nightmare or is feeling trapped in an abusive relationship please read this and know that this is not your fault and you are not alone. There are many out there in the same boat, hold your head up and be strong. Fight for your rights and never give in.

    • navigator1965 November 8, 2013 at 11:52 pm #

      Shannon,

      Thank you so much for dropping by and commenting. You may wish to know that my first book is due out in January 2014, and I make mention of the Nicole Doucet case in it. In my sequel book I intend to explain WHY Doucet was let off. It’s part of a bigger pattern, and I believe that I have cracked the code on this.

      Hopefully this will help to clear Mr. Ryan’s name, although in the opinion of most observers he was clearly innocent.

      As for Nicole Doucet, you might want to do a little reading on something known as covert narcissism.

    • navigator1965 November 9, 2013 at 12:06 am #

      Shannon,

      I forgot to add that either you or Michael are most welcome to contact me at themirrorbooks@gmail.com if you’d like to discuss this further. I’ve done a fair bit of NS time, and my three kids were born there. A summer in NB and a year in NF, around six years in PEI too.

  16. Scarlet December 1, 2013 at 3:19 pm #

    I wonder if any of the men in the men’s moment have been raped, or if they will, like most women earn 30% less than men in the same job, if for thousands of years they where no better than cattle? I can think of twenty time or more demeaning words to describe a woman than a man. Some feminists are mean, really? How terrible welcome to our world.

    • navigator1965 December 1, 2013 at 5:53 pm #

      Welcome, Scarlet.

      In terms of men being raped, I don’t have the statistics, but I would suggest that it is an utterly horrible experience regardless of one’s gender. In terms of male rape victims, you may wish to inquire of stats regarding the US male prison population.

      In my 30 years in the Canadian military, I have never earned one cent more that my female colleagues of the same rank. I would direct your attention to the work of Warren Farrell, Ph.D., (http://www.warrenfarrell.com) on the topic of wages and gender. There aren’t as many women volunteering for combat duty in the infantry, for example, which tends to carry with it certain extra allowances or bonuses. Same for working oil fields or in mines.

      If one examines history, for much of it there was compulsory military service for males. This effectively made them property of the king, emperor, caliph, or the state. Getting hacked to death on some far away battlefield isn’t exactly anyone’s idea of a good patriarchal time. Nor is a cold, watery death at sea. Burning to death or bleeding to death (or both) in your Sopwith Camel, Spitfire, Mustang, or Lancaster wasn’t much fun either. Neither was having one of the twin tower collapse on you while trying to rescue trapped victims.

      I would also suggest that your former employment field exposed you to a less virtuous segment of the male population. This does not constitute a reliable sample from which to extrapolate to the entire male population.

      I find exploitation and victimization to be equally reprehensible irrespective of victim’s gender. And not for a minute do I dispute that there have been and are women victims. However, to maintain that women are inherent victims of men and society (i.e., patriarchy), and that women do not also exploit or victimize men, is to ignore the truth of what is happening in our society with disturbing regularity.

      Thank you for the welcome, but I’ve been in the world you allude to for over 5 years. I can state from experience that women collectively have no greater claim to sainthood than do men.

      “The dogma of woman’s complete historical subjection to men must be rated as one of the most fantastic myths ever created by the human mind.” Mary Ritter Beard (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mary_Ritter_Beard)

      Reading my “About” might provide important contextual information as to where I am coming from. Appreciate your comment, regardless of whether or not we agree.

Please Leave a Reply

Fill in your details below or click an icon to log in:

WordPress.com Logo

You are commenting using your WordPress.com account. Log Out / Change )

Twitter picture

You are commenting using your Twitter account. Log Out / Change )

Facebook photo

You are commenting using your Facebook account. Log Out / Change )

Google+ photo

You are commenting using your Google+ account. Log Out / Change )

Connecting to %s

%d bloggers like this: